Comments on: Non-Canonical Replies

by: Jemima

Wed, 09 Apr 2003 16:09:11 +0000

Certainly the characterization of Spike (and Janeway) has been all over the map, but that has nothing to do with subtext. That’s contradictory canon, which is a separate problem.

The point of my previous example was that contradictory subtexts can’t all be there. They may all be in fan’s minds, but two contradictory interpretations of the same scene cannot both be in the show. At best the scene is ambiguous in that case, but the J/C and C/7 fans don’t say that - they say that the “subtext” is clearly J/C or clearly not.

by: scrollgirl

Wed, 09 Apr 2003 06:30:07 +0000

How many different readings are there of Spike from Buffy? Is Spike the rebel without a cause? Is he the spurned lover who nobly quested for a soul to be worthy of his lady? Is he a manipulative opportunist? Is he a deluded child with a Peter Pan complex? Is he a vicious rapist who should be put down? Is he trying to atone for all the people he’s murdered, or does he feel he’s exempt now that he has a soul?

Fan reaction to Spike is extreme and varied. But it all comes from the text. We draw evidence from the show: Spike’s dialogue and actions, Buffy’s behaviour toward Spike, the inflections James Marsters uses on certain words, the imagery, the themes supporting Spike’s story. It’s all from the text but we all focus on different things.

No different from the fact that subtext of J/C, J/7, C/P, P/K, etc. are all there but certain fans focus on certain pairings. It’s really nothing more than a ’shippers war. Subtext doesn’t disappear simply because fans disagree on its interpretation.

by: Jemima

Wed, 09 Apr 2003 04:21:51 +0000

The argument of the C/7 fans, for instance, is that there never was any J/C subtext, that the J/C fans were completely delusional, and that what they call sexual chemistry is just friendly banter. It can’t be both in the show, only in different people’s minds.

by: scrollgirl

Wed, 09 Apr 2003 04:00:59 +0000

Er, I think I’m just going to have to accept that you don’t recognise subtext to be deliberate artistic choices made by writers/actors. But I’d like to point out that Voyager can show subtext between J/7, J/C, C/P, etc. all at the same time. That’s the whole point of subtext - to imply, hint at, subtlely refer to something without spelling out in big block letters that, yes, Janeway and Chakotay are in love. One pairing does not negate another pairing, not when you read it on the level of subtext.

It’s just that fanfic writers pick and choose the subtext they want to deal with, just as you pick and chose to write about Spike’s emotions in “Bargaining” and “Afterlife”. You could’ve written from the POV of the demon bikers, but you didn’t.

I started to get too long explaining about AUs so I’m going to send an email, okay? But wanted to also say, this has been a very interesting debate :)

by: Jemima

Tue, 08 Apr 2003 21:48:03 +0000

Slash is not AU, it’s an alternate characterization. An AU requires, for one thing, an alternate universe. It cannot happen in the canon universe. Tossing Captain Kirk into the Mirror Mirror universe does not make him evil - the question is how the canon Kirk will deal with the non-canon situation, not how a non-canon Kirk would deal with canon situations.

by: scrollgirl

Tue, 08 Apr 2003 06:10:45 +0000

I certainly don’t mind more of the same, but I’m more interested in twists to the canon universe and situations (AU’s). I’m not interested in major twists to the canon characters (slash, angst, etc.).

This is just a suggestion, of course, but couldn’t you just read slash as if it were an AU? Think of the Wishverse in Buffy: we have a twist to the canon universe which results in a twist in the canon characters. You can’t write an AU and still have perfectly canon characters. (Well, you can if you drop a canon character into a different universe, like the Pylea episodes on Angel.)

Basically what slashers do is extrapolate from the existing canon universe and canon characters, and write their fic as if it were an AU — an AU that really isn’t so different from the canon universe. Their slash universe would be like two steps away from canon, not a thousand miles away.

Most of us slashers don’t consider slash to be AU. But if it helps you to understand what we’re trying to do, just pretend it’s an AU. (Or not, if you just really don’t like reading slash :)